Episode 256 | Difficulties in Reconciliation - James DeGraffenried

Reconciliation is easy to talk about and brutal to live out. We sit down with Church of God minister James DeGraffenreid to get honest about what happens when believers are hurt, churches split, and “unity” becomes a slogan instead of a practice. If you’ve ever asked why some conflicts never seem to heal, or why apologies feel rare, this conversation brings both scripture and plain talk to the table.

We start with definitions and go deeper than vibes. James pulls from Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary to show reconciliation as action: calling people back into union after estrangement, settling quarrels, and even accepting God’s providence in affliction. From there, we ground it in key Bible passages on Christian reconciliation, including Matthew 5:24 and 2 Corinthians 5, where we’re reminded that God reconciles us to Himself through Jesus Christ and then gives us the ministry of reconciliation. That framework changes how we approach church conflict, forgiveness, and accountability.

Then we tackle the question everyone feels but few say out loud: what if you want reconciliation and the other person doesn’t? We draw a clear line between forgiveness and reconciliation, talk about repentance, and discuss why restored relationship can’t be forced when someone refuses to humble themselves. We also address willful sin, 1 John 5, and the serious responsibility pastors carry, including how bad leadership can deepen division and create lasting church hurt.

If church experiences have wounded you and pulled you away from a close walk with God, we end with practical, hopeful counsel: seek the Lord with all your heart, return to prayer and the Word, and trust that the gospel works anywhere in the world. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone who needs healing, and leave a review telling us what reconciliation has looked like in your life.

Visit us online: https://woundedheartswoundedchurches.com

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Prince Moon 1:07

Tonight we have a special guest. Brother James DeGraffenried, Minister of Church of God for plus thirty years. Active in internet activities. He's planting a church there in Tennessee. Working with young people now at a state program and uh at a state facility, I mean. We love the church of God, wants unity and forgiveness in God's people. He reaches out to hurting people, been through a lot himself and can let us know that you can go through tough situations, church issues, whatever it might be, and God can bring you through. That's the witness tonight that he can get help from God no matter what you have been through. And above being a father and church of God minister for years, he's a personal friend of mine. Amen. And I love friends, don't you? I love friends. I love I love this guy here. Let's give him a hand for me here. Love him much.

James DeGraffenreid 2:06

I love you, Brother Moon.

Prince Moon 2:07

Oh, yeah. I know you do. I know you do. Thank the

How To Contact James Online

Prince Moon 2:10

Lord. Glad you're here. All right. First things first. How can we contact you tonight? If someone has a question about your content, who should they call? Who should they talk to?

James DeGraffenreid 2:19

Brother Moon, uh, I administer Facebook page entitled C-O-G-R Chronicles, Exposing the Shadows. I also am on Facebook, my personal Facebook, James Rollins, DGraf and Reed, uh Brother Bernie Tahoke and I've not gotten very far with it, but we're trying to get a website and a Facebook and a YouTube uh channel entitled Let Us Reason Together. Um I'd be happy to talk with anyone if anyone would desire to reach out to me. They can message me uh on Messenger. Uh they can uh comment on COGR Chronicles, exposing the shadows. Um I'm thankful for the Saints, Brother Moon. I'm thankful for this podcast that I trust the Lord is using this podcast to help in the ways that you described. Uh we need in this day and age, this time that we are living in, this time that we are left to hold the standard and to lift up the bloodstained banner of Christ, to live for the Lord and to lift him up to a lost and dying world. We need that, we need this podcast, Brother Moon. Trusting the Lord is going to bless uh souls, bless Christians, the children of God, wherever they are, in whatever country, wherever they are in this world, that God in these last days are bringing his people together. And when Jesus comes again, he will find a remnant who are being faithful, who do have faith in him, who are lifting him up. And brother, as things get worse, and they will get worse, we haven't seen the worst yet.

Prince Moon 4:31

It's true.

James DeGraffenreid 4:32

God in his mercy is trying to wake people up. And we trust that the Lord is going to be able to continue to do what he promised he would do, and as we are faithful to do what he told us to do, to go and spread his gospel to all nations. The Lord is

Why Reconciliation Gets Complicated

James DeGraffenreid 4:55

gonna do what he said he would do, brother. There will be souls saved, uh, and that's what this podcast is all about.

Prince Moon 5:01

Yes, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 5:02

As you as you said, Brother Moon, there's been there have been many divisions, yes, there have been many hurts, sure, uh many uh many uh splits. Sure.

Prince Moon 5:19

In fact, brother James, why is reconciliation difficult sometimes? Why is it hard to reconcile? What are the problems with that?

James DeGraffenreid 5:30

Well, brother, let's look. I have Daniel Webster's 1828 dictionary.

Prince Moon 5:38

Amen. It's a good one.

James DeGraffenreid 5:39

Uh let's look at what brother brother uh Daniel Webster said about reconcil reconcile. It's a verb. True, it means it takes action. True. He says for the first meaning is to conciliate anew, to call back into union and friendship, the affections which have been alienated, to restore

Webster’s Definition Meets Scripture

James DeGraffenreid 6:10

to friendship or favor after estrangement, as to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance. And then he quotes. I love this dictionary because Brother Noah Webster in 1828, he quotes scripture for his for his definitions.

Prince Moon 6:30

That's true. And let me just say, Brother James, Webster is a father of dictionaries. He's the he started the first one that we all use. Funkenwagner all gets that from them. His his dude, his uh programs, his dictionaries were all defined by Bible scriptures. Amen. His his understanding of the word comes from the Bible, and it's fantastic, and it's all over the world now. We thank God for him and for his efforts.

James DeGraffenreid 6:56

Amen. Amen. Amen. Now, here's his second various variants of uh definition. Number two, to bring to acquiescence, content or quiet submission, with to as to reconcile oneself to afflictions. Wow. Or in other words, to uh resolve yourself and to accept God's providence.

Prince Moon 7:28

Amen.

James DeGraffenreid 7:29

It is our duty, it is our duty to be reconciled to the dispensations of providence. Wow. Number three, number three, to make consistent or congruous, to bring to agreement or suitableness, followed by with or to. The great men among the ancients understood how to reconcile manual labor with affairs of state. So the last one, number four, to adjust, to settle, as to reconcile differences or quarrels. So let's go back to the first. I want to go back to the first, where he said to conciliate anew, to call back into union and friendship the affections which have been alienated, to restore to friendship or favor after estrangement, as to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance. And then he quotes scripture. He quotes Matthew chapter five.

Prince Moon 8:46

Wow.

James DeGraffenreid 8:47

Let me find this real quick. I have it.

Speaker 4 8:50

Okay.

James DeGraffenreid 8:50

Um Matthew chapter five, verse 24. Jesus says, Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way. First be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. First, first be reconciled to thy brother. Um if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Prince Moon 9:39

Reconciled.

James DeGraffenreid 10:05

Then in 2 Corinthians 5 18, we read, Paul writes, and all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himself. Now that's let's read that again. Okay, all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ Jesus, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

Break And A Listener’s Insight

Prince Moon 10:35

James, we got to make a break right here. We'll be right back to talk to our those who are supporting the program, but we have to offer our listeners, we'll be right back. The best is yet to come. Don't leave. This is another comment that came in. Reconciliation only comes first admitting wrong, like Daniel did in Babylon. Reconciliation only comes first admitting wrong like Daniel did in Babylon. What's your thoughts on that? You were talking about reconciliation earlier.

James DeGraffenreid 13:08

That's true, Brother Moon. That's true. Uh let's read two more verses of scripture.

Prince Moon 13:14

Okay.

Repentance Starts Real Reconciliation

James DeGraffenreid 13:15

It's in 2 Corinthians 5, verse 20. Paul says, now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us. We pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. And then in Colossians 1, 21, Paul writes, And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. Now, brother, let's think about that for just a moment. In all of these definitions, okay, in all of these scriptures that we've just read, it's clear that we have been made reconciled to our Father in heaven by by Christ Jesus. Brother, there was no way that we could come ourselves to God and be reconciled on our own. I believe, brother, as we understand this, first of all, we must understand this to be saved.

Speaker 4 14:25

True, true.

James DeGraffenreid 14:27

And then as we're dealing with with brothers or with others who might have we're talking about reconciliation in church in church, yes, yes, that there is someone who has hurt or offended or done something to cause harm.

Speaker 3 14:46

True.

James DeGraffenreid 14:55

The ones who've been hurt aren't the ones who can bring reconciliation, they can forgive.

Speaker 4 15:02

Sure.

James DeGraffenreid 15:03

But the reconciliation has to become has to be uh uh initiated. Initiated. Okay, it has to be initiated by the party who offended or who hurt.

Prince Moon 15:18

Okay.

James DeGraffenreid 15:26

And by Christ Jesus, we're able to be reconciled unto our Father. And in the same way, in the same way, through Christ Jesus, we can find reconciliation, even though we might have been hurt, we might have been harmed seriously, Brother Moon. We might have been damaged seriously, yeah. But by the grace of God, we can find reconciliation uh through between brothers.

Prince Moon 15:56

True, brother, true. Our engineer, any comments or questions?

Tennille McLeod 15:58

I do have a comment or question actually that came in from Dennis Kidd 4045. He said, Brother James and Brother Moon, what do

When The Other Side Refuses

Tennille McLeod 16:08

you do when you want reconciliation? But the other party doesn't. Do you kick the dust off your shoes and move on or keep trying?

Prince Moon 16:19

Hmm. Brother James, if you would please. And Brother Kid, good to hear from you. He's a pastor for the past 50 years, and I know him well. He was my pastor four years ago. Thank you for calling in tonight. But James, your answer on that.

James DeGraffenreid 16:34

Well again, brother. With what we've what we've learned from defining the word and what we've learned from God's word, if the if the person who has offended or damaged or caused harm never repents, if they never do what Jesus said, to leave your gift at the altar and go and be reconciled to your brother, if they never make that uh attempt to reconcile, then to answer this to your brother's question, no, there will there will be no reconciliation. There can be forgiveness, and this person who's been harmed can find help and healing.

Prince Moon 17:31

Sure.

James DeGraffenreid 17:32

They can find victory. There's no one that can hurt us as we get close to Jesus. Amen. Um, but as far as saying that there will always be reconciliation, brother Moon, I don't believe that that that has to be the case.

Prince Moon 17:49

It's true. I think so, right?

James DeGraffenreid 17:52

As much as we would want there to be reconciliation, there's some things that we can't uh we can't uh we can't bow to, we can't be in agreement to, um, we can't be a part of. And the brother said, Do we shake the dust off of our feet? Um yes, I guess in a sense we do. Uh if if someone is determined to not humble themselves and to repent and to come uh seeking forgiveness, uh I I would not ever stop praying for that brother, but uh really there's not much we can do if they're determined to uh to not come as the Lord says come.

Prince Moon 18:48

And wouldn't that be primarily for just open sin? Do you think? Would that be just primarily for open sin, biblically doing wrong, James 417? Would that be to that person who would not repent?

James DeGraffenreid 19:05

Well, brother, we're getting into some deep, deep, deep, deep. It is let me share this scripture in first John.

Prince Moon 19:16

And that's why and that's why we're here. That's why.

James DeGraffenreid 19:19

Brother Moon, you you you asked me, brother, so we're gonna talk about it.

Prince Moon 19:24

This is why we're here to discuss these tough situations. We're discussing it publicly. That's right. This is not a Bible study, it's a discussion about how to maintain unity. So the problems are tenuous, sensitive. Why we're here to maintain unity. So we gotta discuss these things.

Speaker 5 19:40

That's right.

Prince Moon 19:40

All right, what do you have for it, my friend?

James DeGraffenreid 19:42

I'm going over to first John. First John.

Prince Moon 19:51

And that's why we're here, friend, to discuss these most touchy situations that have been going on older than I am. I'm in my 70s next month. And these things do occur, but we can do better by learning better. That's true. And we learn by discussion, by talking about these things, reasoning together, endeavoring, and we can get some good income from it. That's right. So we have to discuss these things. It's not easy. Trust me, but we're doing this to maintain unity, reconciliation

Willful Sin And Sin Unto Death

Prince Moon 20:19

in God's church. That's why we're here. Brother James, you have that verse yet?

James DeGraffenreid 20:26

Let's go into first John 5. Let's start reading verse 16.

Speaker 5 20:33

All right.

James DeGraffenreid 20:34

If any man see his brother sin a sin, which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death. I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin. Yes, and there's a sin not unto death. So, brother, my understanding of this scripture is we read about in the word where Paul set spoke about sinning after the similitude of Adam's transgression. It speaks on what you just mentioned about willful, knowledgeable sin.

Speaker 3 21:20

Yes.

James DeGraffenreid 21:21

When someone commits themself to do that which they know the Lord has told them and made it clear to them that that that's sin. Um, I believe that's the sin that I believe that's the sin unto death. And again, brother, I can speak by my own personal experience. I committed the sin unto death.

Speaker 4 21:44

Wow.

James DeGraffenreid 21:45

And Paul and John says here, I do not say to pray for them. And and the reason for that is, as I said earlier, as long as someone is determined to continue to do that which went which they know, and the key there is which they know.

Prince Moon 22:03

Right.

James DeGraffenreid 22:04

If they never come to a place of repentance, brother Moon, all of the prayers that we would lift up for them is not gonna, they're not gonna be saved. They have to come to the Lord and do what God requires us to do to be saved. And and and the sin, the sin that's not unto death is when a brother or sister does something that's not pleasing to the Lord, we pray for them. And when they find out, they humble themselves and they say, Lord, forgive me, help me to not do that again. It's a sin, it's not it's not pleasing to God, but they weren't aware of it.

Prince Moon 22:53

Okay, they had no doubt.

James DeGraffenreid 22:55

And when they become aware of it, it may be by a brother or sister going to them and and sharing with them from the from the Lord and from their heart. As the Holy Spirit would lead them, and they and they immediately receive it, and God restores them and makes them, you know, makes them aware where they weren't aware before.

Prince Moon 23:15

Any questions from our listeners?

Tennille McLeod 23:17

I do have a comment from Dennis Kidd, 4045. He said, I appreciate the podcast very much.

Prince Moon 23:25

I appreciate him.

Speaker 23:26

Yes, yes, we do.

Prince Moon 23:28

Uh brother James, our time is gone. I can't believe it. About two more minutes. So I need to get one more question in. We've asked three of our six, not anywhere near the end. This person said pastors cause division because of their influence. The blood is on their hands. What's your thoughts on that?

James DeGraffenreid 23:52

That's true, Brother Moon.

Speaker 5 23:54

Uh pastors are.

James DeGraffenreid 24:01

I believe I shared this with you uh in one of our first podcasts. Uh it's a very serious place to be. It is a minister of the gospel of Christ. Um some men are not true ministers of the gospel, brother. They are in it for reasons that are uh uh not what Christ wants a minister to be. Uh we don't need to get into all those different things, but uh unto whom much is given, much is required.

Speaker 4 24:41

That's true.

James DeGraffenreid 24:42

And Jesus said if for someone to hurt a

Pastors, Influence, And Division

James DeGraffenreid 24:46

little one, it would be better for a millstone to be tied about his neck and then be thrown into the ocean. Uh we hear we read over in Ezekiel about the watchman on the wall. If he fails to warn the people, not only will the people perish, but their blood will be required at that watchman's hand. Uh it's it's a very serious thing to be a minister of the gospel of Christ. It's the highest calling, brother Moon.

Speaker 4 25:16

True.

James DeGraffenreid 25:17

And brother, there's there's many false shepherds. I'll say this the majority of men claiming to be ministers of the gospel, the majority now are false shepherds. They they are not true ministers of the gospel of Christ. They're they're they're they're pleasing men with itching ears. Many of them of the churches today are nothing more than entertainment centers, uh social clubs, family affairs, uh, and and the Holy Spirit is is is driven out. Jesus is not lifted up. It's just a man, it's man rule, uh it's people following man, and they've lost out with the one who loves them and who died for them. Brother, that's the danger of what we're talking about tonight.

Prince Moon 26:16

Yes, yes. Brother James, in our last moments here, you've been talking about a young man earlier, and he uh had a experience in church and it wounded him. You've been talking to him. What's your advice to someone who's been wounded in church?

James DeGraffenreid 26:34

Well, I had a couple of I had a I had a conversation with this brother. I love him dearly. Uh he was blessed. He was the he was the uh the most anointed uh congregational leading uh singer in the in the in the church of God in the early years before all this foolishness and all this false image, God anointed him and uh blessed him. He was a blessing. Wow. Um I spoke with him just uh week or so ago, and I asked him if he had a close walk with the Lord, and he told me, No, I don't have it. I said, Well, I said, Well, did did do you know that you had it at one time? He said, Yes, yes, I I know I had it at one time. I said, Well, the only thing for you

Healing From Church Wounds

James DeGraffenreid 27:30

to do is to seek the Lord with all of your heart. That means your dear wife, your dear children, whatever you hold dear, you have to seek the Lord more than anything else. Yes, with all your heart, get down by your bedside and pray. Open your Bible and ask God to talk to you through his word. I know God has a close walk for this brother again. I know he does, but he's gonna have to, he's gonna have to come to the Lord and and be reconciled, dear brother. He's gonna have to be reconciled unto God through Christ Jesus. Um, it's not, brother, there's nothing more than we can say. Yes, the word of God is true, God is faithful, he's not gonna turn anyone away.

Prince Moon 28:24

Amen. Brother James, are you talking to people? Does this work in Brazil?

James DeGraffenreid 28:29

What you're saying, brother, it'll work, it'll work throughout this world, brother. It's not God is listen, brother. Our Lord is is on the throne on the right hand of the Father tonight. It doesn't matter if you're at the bottom of this globe or at the top of the globe, or on the in in China or Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, brother, listen, for someone to hear Germany, Vietnam, brother, wherever, for someone to hear the Holy Spirit's knock, for someone to feel pulled to the Lord by the Holy Spirit, and for them to pray and to humble themselves and to seek the Lord's face, to forgive, to ask the Lord to forgive them and to save them, to receive Christ as their as their personal savior, to receive the work that he did on Calvary's tree. Brother, it doesn't matter where they are, the Lord will save them and make them his child, and they'll be they'll be their name will be added in the book of

One Church Worldwide And Closing

James DeGraffenreid 29:39

life, the Lamb's book of life in heaven. Brother, God keeps the record there.

Speaker 4 29:44

Yes, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 29:45

We're just a part of that that body of Christ, brother. Every child of God is a part of his body, the bride of Christ. Brother, people think we're building something when we say church of God. Listen, Jesus prayed that we would be kept in his father's name. That's the only reason that we can go by church of God. I didn't make it up. Jesus asked that we be kept in his father's name. And that's why we are. And whether someone doesn't matter what's over the door. If someone is truly born again, if they're truly saved, brother, they are in the church of God. Whether they like it or whether they don't.

Speaker 6 30:32

We gotta end on that. Praise the Lord. We thank you for those who chimed in tonight.

Prince Moon 30:40

Thank you so very much. James, we can't wait till next week. We got some more comments from people who were commenting while you were on a couple of months ago. And again, those who chimed in tonight. Thank you for being here tonight. We enjoy your company. We're glad you're here. We'll see you next week, man. God bless you.